tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1239312219155861664.post8847570354350140581..comments2023-10-28T05:08:45.409-07:00Comments on Judaism and Israel: "Midsummer Madness" - Jabotinsky or JudaismRon Foxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16230271132118191383noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1239312219155861664.post-32285910065573578742007-04-13T05:02:00.000-07:002007-04-13T05:02:00.000-07:00That's a great answer, Ron. I'll go back and take...That's a great answer, Ron. I'll go back and take a look at the earlier post as well.<BR/><BR/>Take care, and look forward to reading your posts and keeping in touch offline.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10352273619644625550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1239312219155861664.post-38983519908772665862007-04-12T17:30:00.000-07:002007-04-12T17:30:00.000-07:00Andrew, Is this a coincidence that you mentioned t...Andrew, Is this a coincidence that you mentioned the divine right of the Israelites to the land of Canaan or have you read one of my first posts entitled Passover Haggadah - The Sequel. In it I look at Joshua's attack of Jericho from the perspective of the inhabitants one of whom is convinced that everything will work out because he read somewhere that their God told them “You shall not wrong a stranger or oppress him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt”.<BR/><BR/>There are so many stories in the Torah where God and the Israelites wreak death destruction upon strangers and each other. <BR/><BR/>But, as I see it, there are two parallel themes coursing through the Torah. One is the perspective of the particularist, the chauvinist, the person guided by self-interest, the settler - we are good, they are evil, they are out to get us, we better get them first. The other is the universalist who generally believes in the goodness and decency of all people and treats them with love and kindness, fairly and justly.<BR/><BR/>I am not a scholar of Judaic writings and teachings but I believe that over the nearly 2500 years since the Five Books of Moses were compiled, the writings of Rabbis and others have adopted the universalist/social justice pieces of the Torah as the core values of Judaism. <BR/><BR/>(I would be willing to try to find the specific Talmudic references for you but I am not sure what you are looking for. I thought I had included citations each time I quoted a Jewish writing). <BR/><BR/>Also with respect to the "we were given this land in the Torah" argument, it is difficult to argue with those who believe that the words of the Torah should be accepted literally. I can only say that I disagree. As a lawyer, I would want to ask the Jewish Israeli residents of Hebron for evidence by written deeds directly from Moses to Rabbi Levinger. I believe that the Carthaginians have more of a claim to Sicily, the Indians to Manhattan and Haifa to the Palestinians who live there. <BR/><BR/>Even if there is some validity to the Orthodox argument that the strangers are on their land, I am sure that we would have no difficulty finding many sources in Judaic writings that would reject their desire to treat strangers as secondary citizens, discriminate against them and treat them as lesser persons.<BR/><BR/>I just quoted one of them in my most recent post. Rabbi Hillel said, "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor." Another way to look at that would be to say that we should treat everyone equally.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for adding your comment.<BR/><BR/>RonRon Foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16230271132118191383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1239312219155861664.post-37730098914353594352007-04-12T04:55:00.000-07:002007-04-12T04:55:00.000-07:00Ron, this is a lovely post and a good summary of r...Ron, this is a lovely post and a good summary of references to the respectful treatment of strangers in the Jewish tradition. I'd be curious to know the specific Talmudic references if you happen to have them.<BR/><BR/>I've certainly struggled with this issue, as an observant Jew who also opposes the oppression of the Palestinians.<BR/><BR/>For all the references to the treatment of strangers, there seems to be even more, in Torah and Nevi'im, about the divine right of the Israelites to the land of Canaan, our obligation to dispossess the contemporary inhabitants - in fact, to slaughter them all, in many cases, so as to prevent intermarriage.<BR/><BR/>The Orthodox also like to make the point that the laws on the treatment of strangers apply to those in <I>our</I> land - i.e. implying our inherent right to possession, with strangers occupying a secondary, if protected, status.<BR/><BR/>I find much of this hard to reconcile with my own political views. I'd be very curious to see how the rabbis deal with the apparent contradiction.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10352273619644625550noreply@blogger.com